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> Vocal Sounds through Horns, Using horns the way were not intended
gregoryagogo
post Mar 11 2005, 08:40 PM
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I heard a song on Radio Dismuke the other day and I could have sworn that the Tuba or Trombone player was saying "Da Dee Da Da Da" through his instrument. It almost sounds like a muted sound but it leaves you wondering...

Is this a widely used practice? Or am I hallucinating?

Gregory huh.gif


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LadyNostalgiaBuf...
post Mar 12 2005, 03:10 AM
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I think I might know what you're talking about. I've heard something like what you're describing in old music, but as to whether or not it was done a lot, I cannot tell you.

That sound you're describing: isn't that sort of like in the Peanuts animated cartoons when their teacher (or any other adult) is supposed to be "talking"? No, wait.... that's "bwa-bwa-bwa"!! biggrin.gif
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Jarred
post Mar 12 2005, 10:48 PM
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I swear I heard a trombone play a sound I've heard in a lot of cartoons on some old recording. I'm not sure how to describe the sound. It's Like..."Ig-a-dee-ig-a-de-ike" really fast. It's always puzzled me how this sound was produced.


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Ian House
post Mar 12 2005, 11:09 PM
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Jarred,

You have an excellent ear! It was, in fact, a trombone that made that sound effect. I once read about it in an interview with Bob Clampett who, if I recall correctly, was the one to "discover" the sound -and was the first Warner director to make it a staple in his cartoons.


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gregoryagogo
post Mar 13 2005, 09:27 PM
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I think the art of recording sound and manipulating it for whatever the creative situation requires is simply amazing. Ya know I have said it before on this forum about how fast music was changing and evolving through the past 100 years.... But the way it has been recorded, manipulated, edited, sambled to create new sounds is another aspect of how genious we humans are!

I love it!

Like a mad chef arranging the notes, and the mad editor recoring it a certain way... the posibilities are endless!

Gregory


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WhitemansWhisper...
post Mar 13 2005, 11:49 PM
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Yes, I sure do have to agree!

A couple of other examples of horns being used to make different sounds would be "Livery Stable Blues", recorded in 1917, by the Original Dixieland Jass Band. You can actually hear the sound of a horse neighing by a horn. The other example is "When My Baby Smiles at Me", sung by Ted Lewis, and there is a sound of laughter made by a horn. This was recorded in 1920, so I am wondering if this producing of different sounds by horns was a bit of a musical fad in the late teens and early 20s.
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bob
post Mar 14 2005, 08:22 AM
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A good example of a trombone that sounds like it's laughing is Harry Raderman's "Make That Trombone Laugh" 1920. You can listen at this link.

http://www.turtleserviceslimited.org/trombone.htm

HARRY RADERMAN (1883- 1939), a trombonist known for his ability to make his trombone "laugh" recorded as a member of various Victor stage bands from 1917 throughout the 1920's including Earl Fuller's Famous Jazz Band and Ted Lewis and his Band.

He also led Harry Raderman's Jazz Orchestra, Raderman's Novelty Orchestra, Harry Raderman's Orchestra, the Plantation Dance Orchestra, Raderman's Roysteres, and the Red Hotters.

Noting the success of the earliest "jass" record on which the Original Dixieland Jass Band musicians imitate various farmyard animals, other musicians created novel sounds on their instruments. Raderman made his trombone laugh. He showcased his laughing trombone in a composition titled "Make That Trombone Laugh." It was issued on Edison Blue Amberol 3965, Edison Diamond Disc 50637, Gennett 9031, and Okeh 4089.

You will find more details in "The Encyclopedia of Popular American Recording Pioneers: 1895-1925" compiled by Tim Gracyk.

laugh.gif Bob


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gregoryagogo
post Mar 15 2005, 09:11 PM
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It would make sense that this fad would have come from the accoustal eras. Certain sounds and effects sounded better and stood out with that type of recording. Like bells and crude perrcussion... Because it was lacking in Bass... ph34r.gif

Gregory


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MJJ
post Apr 2 2005, 09:47 AM
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Or, how about this one with Raderman's laughing trombone?

"YELLOW DOG BLUES"

Recorded: October 1, 1919; Victor 18618 -- B

"Joseph C. Smith's Orchestra"; Smith - Vocal; Raderman - Laughing Trombone.

http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/misc/yello...owdogblues2.ram


.ram file from: "Red Hot Bands": http://www.redhotjazz.com/bands.html


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gregoryagogo
post Jul 26 2005, 07:14 PM
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Ok, here is a great example... it sounds like some one is humming through a trumpet or horn of some kind!

"One Hour" by RED McKENZIE BLUE BLOWERS
http://www.jazz-on-line.com/ram/BLU57146-3.ram

Gregory wink.gif


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Fredrik
post Jul 27 2005, 12:59 PM
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Actually that's Red McKenzie playing comb-and-paper - which was the so called "blue blowing" that gave the band its name.

Fredrik
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gregoryagogo
post Jul 27 2005, 07:09 PM
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Thanks, Fredrik!! This is why we come to this site to learn more about the music we love!! Your knowlege is much appreciated!

Love,
Gregory wink.gif


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Ed Vasicek
post Jul 30 2005, 12:05 AM
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biggrin.gif They certainly made some strange attempts at faking trumpets, muted or not. The comb thing Frederik mentioned is one example. And the things the Mills Brothers would do with their hands often sounded very "brass like." Some of the sounds of Ukele Ike defy description.

One other odd (but sort of mellow) sound was the muted clarinet, something virtually unknown today. Anyone have other insights in this realm?
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Jarred
post Jul 30 2005, 02:28 PM
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Muted clarinet? I don't think so. At least not in the derby or plunger mute variety used on brass instuments. Being a clarinet owner myself, I know for sure there is no way to change the sound of a reed instrument by putting something in the bell of the instrument (I tried this first when I first started playing in 6th grade). When using reeds, the only way to change the sound or style of playing on the instrument is to play into the reed differently. I'm guessing the clarinet sound you're referring to is the one used a lot by Paul Whiteman in the early thirties, where it is played so soft, almost all you can hear is a soft, low hum. I think the person playing the instrument was just playing incredibly softly on the reed and very lightly pressing the keys, to generate that bubbly and flowing mellow sound. I bet it took a lot of practice to get that sound just right.


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Ed Vasicek
post Aug 4 2005, 05:08 AM
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No, Gershwin in particular liked the muted clarinet.

From a website (www.drimple.net/archives/000100.html):

i miss my clarinet. there's an article at salon talking about united airlines' bankruptcy and it quickly mentioned the commercials united ran in the 90's and their use of gershwin's rhapsody in blue. my mind quickly flashed back to 7th grade band where i was first introduced to rib and then to 10th grade where we did a whole marching show to gershwin - which, btw, was really flashy. last time i tried, i could partially do the clarinet solo at the beginning of the tune, but couldnt successfully pull off the muted clarinet trick.

See it mentioned at: www.jazzprofessional.com/Minstrel/minstrel_p14.htm

"I was generally booked to play the solos in An American in Paris and Concerto in F on the Gershwin concerts. All the other trumpet play­ers in Berlin were scared to death of those two solos. The one in Concerto, especially, is a very slow pianissimo in a cup mute, completely exposed, with only a muted clarinet background. The solo contains many double-octave jumps. Fluffing one of them is good for an in­stant heart attac...

To find a modern mute, visit: www.bill-lewington.com/silentsax.htm

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